MacWorld’s review of Entourage 2008: A missed opportunity
Tom Negrino at MacWorldhas written a review 
of Entourage 2008, part of the newly released Microsoft Office for Mac 2008.
Although it has its fans, the shortcomings of Entourage 2004 were well-known and many were hoping for greater things from Entourage 2008.
MacWorld’s verdict?
There are several other new or improved features relating to e-mail or calendaring, but they apply only to users in corporate environments that connect to a Microsoft Exchange server. Given that it’s been four long years in the making, it’s a missed opportunity that Entourage 2008 hasn’t also added some of the best new features found in Mail, such as automatic detection of physical addresses and dates, or e-mail stationery templates.
Entourage gets points for more complete AppleScript-ability, for compatibility with Mac OS X’s Services and for looking nicer, but when you get down to business — backing up your email and working with other apps — things look less rosy.
Negrino notes Microsoft’s advice that Entourage’s monolithic database be excluded from Time Machine backups and that users employ “alternative backup methods” instead. This is not only a pain in the butt, but cuts across the comprehensive design of Time Machine as a “set and forget”, everything-that-matters-to-you backup system.
Working with iCal is also fraught in Negrino’s view:
When you first synchronize Entourage with Sync Services, it creates an Entourage calendar in iCal, replicating your Entourage events in iCal. If you add or change events in that Entourage calendar in iCal or on a mobile device, those events will be synchronized back to Entourage’s internal calendar. But there’s no way to bring events from other iCal calendars (such as the default Home, Work, or Birthdays calendars) into Entourage’s internal calendar. Put another way, Entourage can publish data to iCal, but can’t subscribe to any of iCal’s other calendars. In effect, Entourage uses iCal as a convenient conduit to synchronize its data to other devices, but doesn’t treat iCal as a full calendaring partner.
After getting to the end of the review, I was surprised by the final sentence:
“Finally, if you’re outside of the corporate realm, and need a mail, calendar, and contact manager with lots of headroom and solid integration with the rest of the Office suite, Entourage provides a wealth of features that are deeper than Apple’s trio.”
Are you?
Similar Posts:
- Sneak preview of the new Entourage 2008
- Entourage gets Spotlight, Sync Services support
- Draining the online calendar swamp
- iCal Duplicates Script updated for Leopard
- An automated email of the week’s upcoming events
Tags: Address Book, email, entourage, iCal, mail.app, microsoft, office for mac 2008, sync services, time machine
January 22nd, 2008 at 12:04 am
I think the key phrase in that last sentence is the “solid integration with the rest of the Office suite”, though I’m forced to wonder how much that would actually matter to a non-corporate user.
One would have thought that the priority for non-corporate users would be solid integration with Mac OS X’s own facilities, which would include syncing with Address Book and iCal as equal partners.
In real terms, Entourage *should* be two components: a sync engine to hook up to Exchange, and a UI to iCal, Address Book and its own mailbox. It shouldn’t then matter whether you prefer to use Entourage/iCal, Entourage/Address Book, or Entourage/Mail.app/Thunderbird (or something else), and whether you talk to an Exchange server or not.
Microsoft’s philosophy for Entourage appears to be “you use Office for everything, or you don’t use it at all”, which runs contrary to most Mac apps that I can think of. I can’t say I’m entirely convinced that they “get it” yet.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 am
I got just because I can. I’ve owned it since v.X, but have not used it for the last 3.5 years. Full and complete synchronization with whatever I want is my using factor. Before it was my Palms, now it’s my iPhone. Calendar synching with iCal is just too sweet an option to give up in order to use Entourage. Not everyone is in a position as myself to buy this software just to have laying around. I have no need for Office software at home so even my iWork is overkill for me.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:18 am
It’s Tom Negrino, not Tony.
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:14 am
Thanks, Lee. That’s embarrassing. :(
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:13 am
No. Having read the whole review, I’m not at all surprised at the lst paragraph. It sounds like a good, solid upgrade that addresses most of the problems of earlier versions.
As he rightly points out, there are still areas that could be improved – and these are the bits of the review you have chosen to quote. None of these issues appear to be critical – what complex program couldn’t be improved in some way? Far more of the review is actually about good points and improvements.
In my home life, I use only Apple products for the purposes that Entourage serves. I wonder if you have ever tried using Apple software in a Windows-centric work environment where everyone else (including the Mac users) uses Entourage?
I thought it was a good, considered review, including the last statement.
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:39 am
You don’t see a strange disjunction between the view (in the first quote) that the new and improved features apply only to corporate users and the view at the end that Entourage provides a wealth of features for those “outside of the corporate realm”?
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Yes, they have great AppleScript support. Unfortunately, they’ve totally killed cross-platform compatibility with this release by removing support for VBA, which is used by, I don’t know, some insanely high percentage of Excel spreadsheets…
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:47 am
Address Book sync is totally screwed up. Lots of people, including me, are seeing multiple address entries proliferate in Entourage 2008 — I was up to 8 copies of each person until I deleted them all and did just a one-time sync. Bug test much, Microsoft?
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:51 am
Tim, we didn’t just do corporate functionality in 2008 and I believe Tom’s review does a good job of fairly pointing that out and where we need to do more work. A follow-up article from John Welch focuses on enterprise work we did.
Entourage 2008′s focus was on better stability in the enterprise (and at home) + a number of end-user productivity wins such as to dos for quicker tasking, speedy searching, My Day for managing time quickly, the Favorites Bar for quick navigation, a greatly improved calendaring UI, and more.
2008 isn’t a revolutionary product, but I do hope it’s taken a good evolutionary step forward for many Entourage users.
January 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Andy, thanks for your post. And for tipping me off about John Welch’s article, which I haven’t seen.
I am sure that you are right about it being a good evolutionary step.
It’s probably my dual handicaps (first, working in an educational environment committed to open source and, secondly, always wanting something revolutionary) that makes me slow to see it.
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Sorry, but if it takes 4 years for “better stability in the enterprise”, we’ll never see Entourage as a client to compete with Fusion+Unity+Outlook. I beta-tested Entourage 2008, and every time I filed a feedback bug about Entourage’s utter failure to work with contact entries in the GAL as “Resources”, they closed my bug with no comment. I tried three times before giving up. I work at a *large* silicon valley software company, and that single feature is preventing me from recommending Entourage as a functional email client. Fusion+Unity+Outlook provides a much better, feature-complete user experience. Doesn’t the ability to see contacts as resources count as “better stability in the enterprise”?
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Link–Not going to turn this into an Entourage feedback site, but I know even Tim has reported over the year on our regular enhancements to Entourage. While the year marker is noticeable, we regularly added more features to Entourage since 2004. If you want a comparison, install 11.0 and compare that to what you’ve got today. You’ll see major changes to the app. Changes we’ve regularly delivered in free updates.
For resource booking, there are numbers of options out there that work with Entourage. The Exchange team has the best write-up here: http://msexchangeteam.com/archive/2007/02/16/435404.aspx
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I do know that regular updates come through-out Entourage’s life, but it’s frustrating to have my bug closed out thrice without even a “no” (I didn’t mean to come off as bashing Entourage; just frustrated). I’ve read that blog post during my Google searching for solutions to my problem, and at the time, server-side changes weren’t an option. Things might be changing, so I may be able to effect some sort of server-side change (as well as a slight change in culture) to allow for the work-around detailed in that write-up.
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Link – I assume that was during out beta. I’ll pass that on to our beta admins. In general, the beta process wasn’t as smooth as it should have been and you were not alone in this frustration.
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Yes, it was during the beta. Since the beta has expired, and the volume licensing isn’t available until February, I’ve not had a chance to use the final version yet. Thanks for taking my (not so constructive) feedback in stride!
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:45 pm
This makes me grateful that, after 7 years on Entourage, I finally switched our business to Apple’s Mail and Daylite when Leopard came out. It’s a killer combination, and leaves Entourage (even the 2008) in the dust.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:08 am
There’s an issue with Entourage 2008 that is not yet widely reported: it will not import data from Entourage v. X. Under known issues information for the 2008 version, Microsoft reports that it won’t make this import during the initial installation setup, however, their suggested use of import under the File menu afterwards also fails. This behavior is the same under Tiger as well as Leopard.
The current suggestion of experts is to either drag the folders out manually and then drag them in to the new version, exporting/importing the contacts separately and then recreating everything else, or to import the database into Apple Mail, and from there into Entourage 2008!
If Apple Mail could import everything from Entourage v. X, including mailing lists, signature files, contacts, accounts and most important for me the data that shows which pieces of mail have been answered with links to the answers, then I and perhaps many other v. X users might move to Apple Mail and leave Entourage behind.
The lack of compatibility of Entourage 2008 with Time Machine is another reason to change to Apple Mail if one is currently using or planning on upgrading to Leopard.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:19 am
Just a couple of comments on your review of my review:
Thanks for changing my name to get it right.
It’s Macworld, not MacWorld. We’re irrationally sensitive about that.
In your first quote above, note that I did not say that all the new features went to Exchange users; I referred to other new features. So I don’t see a contradiction between that paragraph and the review’s conclusion.
In my view, one should look at Entourage in comparison to Apple’s three competing products. Does Entourage’s contact and calendar portions beat out Address Book and iCal? Generally, yes. Many of the things that people like about iCal have little to do with the program and more to do with iCal add-ons, like BusySync. But as a reviewer, I have to look at just the programs for a fair comparison. Entourage mail versus Apple Mail is a closer call, admittedly, but my call is that Entourage is still more powerful.
On the matter of backup, Time Machine works well with programs that keep every message separate, and not so well with programs that use a database, like Entourage. But it’s unrealistic to have expected Microsoft to replace their database just to work with Time Machine, as implied by some commenters. Other backup choices need to be made; in my opinion, using Time Machine alone is not a comprehensive backup strategy. To claim that one must change to Mail due to the Time Machine issue is silly, in my view.
January 23rd, 2008 at 7:42 am
Hi Tom,
Thanks for your post, and for taking the trouble to reply.
Interesting.
I understand that a reviewer might feel obliged to compare vanilla apps “out of the box”. However, I find that most users (well, Hawk Wings readers) are interested in what they can actually “get done” with apps, and that means comparing them within the full context of extensions, plugins and hacks that make it possible to tailor apps to particular needs.
This, I hardly need point out, is where Apple’s native apps shine. The list of plugins for Mail that enable users to do more, and do it smarter, than users of other email clients is almost endless (if a little munged up last night’s WordPress upgrade which didn’t go as smoothly as hoped!).
So, in my view the valuable comparison is not “out of box” but how usable the app is the “real world” with all the tweaks and enhancements that this richer context offers. Such philosophical differences about the nature of reviewing are the spice of life, of course, and excellent, but they do lead to different estimations.
On Time Machine: Was it unrealistic to expect Microsoft to develop its Spotlight workaround for Entourage? It happened. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. It’s my hunch that in this case, there just isn’t the will.
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:33 am
Tim,
From the reviewer’s standpoint, it’s virtually impossible to take into account the entire ecosystem of add-ons for Apple’s programs when comparing them to another company’s products. First, as you mention, there are a zillion of them, and more all the time. If I allow (as an example I’m pulling out of the air), Mail add-ons into a review, then point out that there’s still no way to do Feature X with Mail, someone will loudly complain that I brutally ignored that beta Feature X plugin written by a teenager in Croatia that he posted on his iDisk last week, and how can I be such a Microsoft-shilling tool?
More to the point, some of these add-ons cost money, and most readers believe (rightly, I think) that they should not have to purchase extra functionality to make a head-to-head comparison. An out-of-the-box comparison levels the playing field, and allows everyone to make an informed choice.
And I’d also point out that I’m given word count limits by my editor, and simply don’t have the space to write about every feature and every possible combination of plug-ins.
Yes, it was unrealistic to expect Entourage to work with Time Machine. Leopard wasn’t released until after most of the work that went into Office 2008 was complete; the two months between Leopard’s release and Office going golden master were spent doing testing for compatibility. It was widely reported that Time Machine itself was changing dramatically in the couple of months just before Leopard’s release. Had MS decided to completely re-architect Entourage for TIme Machine after Leopard was available, we would be looking for Office 2009, at best.
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:54 am
Perhaps it was unrealistic to expect Time Machine compatibility with this release, but Leopard users expecting Time Machine to serve as their sole means of backup should be alerted that Entourage requires additional means for backup prior to making a decision whether to purchase it.
Frankly, I don’t mind the idea of using another type of backup once I move to Leopard since I use several means currently under Tiger, however Entourage 2008′s failure to import Identities from Entourage v. X would have prevented me from purchasing it had I known that in advance. Will users of v. X have to wait until Office 2009 or Office 2012 for that to be solved?
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:04 am
PHG, 2008 can import v. X. There appears to be an issue in the import process where certain kinds of X databases don’t import properly. We’re investigating. It’s not a hands-down “doesn’t work with X” by design of the software.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
Dear Mr. Ruff, thank you for the information. I have not yet encountered a user of V. X who has successfully imported an identity into Entourage 2008. I did mean to imply that this was “by design” since 2008 includes v. X as an importation option. Rather, I would consider this a significant glitch. I was also unaware that there are differing kinds of X databases. If you’d care to elaborate, that might be of interest to people following this thread.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:33 am
I installed Office 08 and un-installed it today. I will reinstall Word, Excel & PPT.
I so desperately wanted Entourage to be great. I love the idea of integrated mail, calendar & address book.
Here is what made me do a quick about turn
No drag and drop of attachments to an email.. click on the paperclick icon only
Slow overall response and start-up. Very slow to mark email read
Poor visual alert/preview for new emails with no customization of where it appears. Hey badging works, whey did they not take a proven Mac approach
Very pretty labels for the calendar colors that are stripped out on every .Mac sync because iCal does not support labels just multiple calendars
Very limited display views of contacts. I always liked the Outlook card view.
Very coarse control over changing interface fonts. The LHS sidebar folders font size is on the same preference as the message font. I want my folder names small.
The FUGLY Barnie purple My day.
I could go on but as of this morning I am back to mail.app with whole new appreciation for how “simply” functional it is.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:42 am
We’re looking into it… I’ll update when we know more.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
I do think it’s a bit much to expect Tom Negrino or any reviewer to write about the whole “ecosystem” around Mail add-ons; after all, there are lots of Entourage scripts to extend functionality, too. That kind of comparison might make for a very interesting followup article, though, about how both Mail and Entourage can be extended.
I have had my issues with Mail (and its add-ons), but I’m afraid I’ve had them with my limited use of Entourage as well. I’m a 1.5-person business (I have a part-time assistant) and I don’t have any great fealty to either the Apple apps or to Entourage. I’ve used both. I just wish that I could find a review (and this is selfish of me, I’m sure) that indicates which solution really has the most bang for the buck if I don’t need Exchange but still have mid-sized mail needs, project needs, etc, which is the best choice. Probably both are a decent choice and one must simply pick one, roll up sleeves, and make it work best for one’s particular needs. I’m still a bit confused as to why Entourage trumps Mail/Address Book/iCal in this regard. It seems the only overwhelming advantage is integration with Office apps. Am I missing something?
I do think it’s quite nice and helpful to see folks like Mr. Ruff from the Mac BU and Mr. Negrino responding here.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
The issue of a single database for Entourage mail is not an issue that only cropped up with Time Machine. It has been an ongoing issue for many of us in Office X and Office 2004, that are power mail users.
Back in the Entourage X the filesize limitation was way to small, but even since the database is prone to periodic corruption. Recovery, if possible, takes a long process as the entire database needs rebuilding. Also backups other than Time Machine are prone to failure (as is any large active database file), unless you make a copy and back that up (see standard Filemaker backup procedures). A single database file works up to a point, and it’s adequate for light mail users. But for a business that lives in email, and uses POP accounts, I would highly discourage the use of Entourage.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Simple solution for Exchange crapiness:
zimbra.com
January 25th, 2008 at 4:41 am
In my prior post I mentioned we un-installed Office 08 after such a disappointing trial of the new Entourage. We used the Microsoft supplied un-installer. I guess nobody at Microsoft ever did this because it leaves debris everywhere. The dead icons still remained in the doc & 2 days later I am still getting Barnie purple Entourage calendar alerts popping-up despite removal of the program. Obviously program components remain despite following their removal procedure. This to me is typical of Microsoft products. A lot of fanfare about a few things they have improved and then a slow voyage of discovery of the endless i’s they never dotted and t’s they never crossed.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Well, I was willing to give Entourage a try, until I learned that syncing to my Palm would be crippled. So, thanks, but, no thanks.