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	<title>Comments on: Savaging Mail&#8217;s sending silliness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/</link>
	<description>Tips and add-ons to make Apple Mail / Mail.app even better</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-327053</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-327053</guid>
		<description>I haven't really thought too hard about this but I find it useful to drop the assumption that everyone else is an idiot sometimes and ask "why would they have done that"?

Perhaps having the message disappear when being sent is not a bug but a feature. Maybe the idea is to prevent users modifying the message when it's in the unpredictable state between "drafted" and "sent". 

If you were able to make modifications while the message was in transit how could you be sure that the changes were the ones that actually made it to its recipient? Now add to the problem by asking what happens if the message fails to send after you made edits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t really thought too hard about this but I find it useful to drop the assumption that everyone else is an idiot sometimes and ask &#8220;why would they have done that&#8221;?</p>
<p>Perhaps having the message disappear when being sent is not a bug but a feature. Maybe the idea is to prevent users modifying the message when it&#8217;s in the unpredictable state between &#8220;drafted&#8221; and &#8220;sent&#8221;. </p>
<p>If you were able to make modifications while the message was in transit how could you be sure that the changes were the ones that actually made it to its recipient? Now add to the problem by asking what happens if the message fails to send after you made edits.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody Sabran</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-265531</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody Sabran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-265531</guid>
		<description>This is a serious flaw I believe, especially when you have more than one email in your sending queue... how are you supposed to know what is being sent, which order they are being sent in and to who?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a serious flaw I believe, especially when you have more than one email in your sending queue&#8230; how are you supposed to know what is being sent, which order they are being sent in and to who?!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-105875</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-105875</guid>
		<description>Click Window, Activity monitor to view a progress bar or stop what is being sent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Click Window, Activity monitor to view a progress bar or stop what is being sent.</p>
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		<title>By: Omni</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-96477</link>
		<dc:creator>Omni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 03:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-96477</guid>
		<description>Yes, I remember using a previous version of Mail (I don't know which) that gave me a progress percent when I selected a message I was sending in the Outbox. How come they took that out?? That would be a perfect plug-in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I remember using a previous version of Mail (I don&#8217;t know which) that gave me a progress percent when I selected a message I was sending in the Outbox. How come they took that out?? That would be a perfect plug-in.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-94272</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-94272</guid>
		<description>Luis Alejandro Masanti Says: 

"... I remember that there was a way of storing the â€œsent emailsâ€ in the same folder from which I am replying."

IIRC, Eudora has an option for this. Unfortunately, that means you're out of luck, because Qualcomm has announced it is discontinuing Eudora.

Some of the functionality Eudora had will survive in the form of an "extension" to Mozilla's Thunderbird that's being written by ex-Eudora programmers, but I don't know whether that will include the feature you recalled there:

http://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luis Alejandro Masanti Says: </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; I remember that there was a way of storing the â€œsent emailsâ€ in the same folder from which I am replying.&#8221;</p>
<p>IIRC, Eudora has an option for this. Unfortunately, that means you&#8217;re out of luck, because Qualcomm has announced it is discontinuing Eudora.</p>
<p>Some of the functionality Eudora had will survive in the form of an &#8220;extension&#8221; to Mozilla&#8217;s Thunderbird that&#8217;s being written by ex-Eudora programmers, but I don&#8217;t know whether that will include the feature you recalled there:</p>
<p><a href="http://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope</a></p>
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		<title>By: chuckeweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-93939</link>
		<dc:creator>chuckeweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 06:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-93939</guid>
		<description>I think the opinionator in the blog article is probably pining for Outlook Express. He had it "so much easier" when he used MS. Really, that's just what it seems like to me, and I found nothing constructive in his bloviating on the design aspect of Mail. If anything, his arguments were beyond silly and seemed like self-promotion. 

Mail is a great app, and like others posted here, I didn't get anything out of Pierre's whinging....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the opinionator in the blog article is probably pining for Outlook Express. He had it &#8220;so much easier&#8221; when he used MS. Really, that&#8217;s just what it seems like to me, and I found nothing constructive in his bloviating on the design aspect of Mail. If anything, his arguments were beyond silly and seemed like self-promotion. </p>
<p>Mail is a great app, and like others posted here, I didn&#8217;t get anything out of Pierre&#8217;s whinging&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Hannes Ingwersen</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-93795</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannes Ingwersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-93795</guid>
		<description>I partially disagree with his criticism. Let's just put the error scenario aside for a moment. All the years I have used Windows I found the "Outbox" pretty much useless and annoying. I still feel the same way. I actually don't want to see a mailbox that is empty most of the time all the time in the interface of a program that I frequently use. So it is my opinion that not using the outbox does make very much sense and perfectly fits the simplistice concept Mac applications should have. 

Now, the fact that a static mailbox name changes from "Sent" to "Sending..." is just great. I really can't see why this is "ugly". What could be more intuitive than placing such a message right where you can see it and not using any valuable extra space somewhere else, where you are likely not to look for it anyway? 

The only problem is that when you click on it, it doesn't actually show you that one message. Although I think this really is a minor problem, maybe the outbox could appear as a subsidary of the "Sent" mailbox, just as the different mailboxes of different accounts appear. Or the mail being send appears in that "Sent" mailbox with some kind of color label.

Yes, there is room for improvement on this issue, but the propositions that blog author makes wouldn't fit my idea of intuitive Mac use at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I partially disagree with his criticism. Let&#8217;s just put the error scenario aside for a moment. All the years I have used Windows I found the &#8220;Outbox&#8221; pretty much useless and annoying. I still feel the same way. I actually don&#8217;t want to see a mailbox that is empty most of the time all the time in the interface of a program that I frequently use. So it is my opinion that not using the outbox does make very much sense and perfectly fits the simplistice concept Mac applications should have. </p>
<p>Now, the fact that a static mailbox name changes from &#8220;Sent&#8221; to &#8220;Sending&#8230;&#8221; is just great. I really can&#8217;t see why this is &#8220;ugly&#8221;. What could be more intuitive than placing such a message right where you can see it and not using any valuable extra space somewhere else, where you are likely not to look for it anyway? </p>
<p>The only problem is that when you click on it, it doesn&#8217;t actually show you that one message. Although I think this really is a minor problem, maybe the outbox could appear as a subsidary of the &#8220;Sent&#8221; mailbox, just as the different mailboxes of different accounts appear. Or the mail being send appears in that &#8220;Sent&#8221; mailbox with some kind of color label.</p>
<p>Yes, there is room for improvement on this issue, but the propositions that blog author makes wouldn&#8217;t fit my idea of intuitive Mac use at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-93344</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-93344</guid>
		<description>This armchair quarterback/designer needs to find other things to do. His made-up scenario is laughable, and his whole tone is nothing but barely-masked self-promotion. There's no value for Mail users here, why bother linking to it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This armchair quarterback/designer needs to find other things to do. His made-up scenario is laughable, and his whole tone is nothing but barely-masked self-promotion. There&#8217;s no value for Mail users here, why bother linking to it?</p>
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		<title>By: Not Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-92956</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-92956</guid>
		<description>I think selecting Activity Viewer in the menu tells you all you need to know about what is happening with your sent mail. Just sayin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think selecting Activity Viewer in the menu tells you all you need to know about what is happening with your sent mail. Just sayin&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: aawoken</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-92801</link>
		<dc:creator>aawoken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/02/betalogue-savages-mails-sending-silliness/#comment-92801</guid>
		<description>My Mail has an Outbox and always shows mail being sent there until it makes its "Sent" noise. So it goes Draft&#62;Outbox&#62;Sent. Makes perfect sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Mail has an Outbox and always shows mail being sent there until it makes its &#8220;Sent&#8221; noise. So it goes Draft&gt;Outbox&gt;Sent. Makes perfect sense to me.</p>
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