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	<title>Comments on: An ode to bottom-posting</title>
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	<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/</link>
	<description>Tips and add-ons to make Apple Mail / Mail.app even better</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Ridley</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-2085</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ridley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-2085</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I dont have enough email conversations on the go at one time that I ever forget what they are about and need to check the bottom again.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Even so, I&#039;m sure you occasionally get things that would be a little wacky out of order. If nothing else, every e-mailer I know occasionally gets a &quot;oops, here&#039;s the attachment I said was on the last message&quot;  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I dont have enough email conversations on the go at one time that I ever forget what they are about and need to check the bottom again.</p></blockquote>
<p>Even so, I&#8217;m sure you occasionally get things that would be a little wacky out of order. If nothing else, every e-mailer I know occasionally gets a &#8220;oops, here&#8217;s the attachment I said was on the last message&#8221;  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-2078</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 05:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-2078</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point about the switch of attention focus. 

I don&#039;t notice it, probably because I dont have enough email conversations on the go at one time that I ever forget what they are about and need to check the bottom again.

I need more friends obviously ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point about the switch of attention focus. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t notice it, probably because I dont have enough email conversations on the go at one time that I ever forget what they are about and need to check the bottom again.</p>
<p>I need more friends obviously ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: sjk</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-2075</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 01:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-2075</guid>
		<description>Back now after reading TonyAndrewMeyer&#039;s article, which elaborates the same points I wrote here.  Sorry for the redundancy, tho&#039; it&#039;s inevitable with thoroughly-seasoned topics like this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back now after reading TonyAndrewMeyer&#8217;s article, which elaborates the same points I wrote here.  Sorry for the redundancy, tho&#8217; it&#8217;s inevitable with thoroughly-seasoned topics like this one.</p>
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		<title>By: sjk</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-2074</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 01:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-2074</guid>
		<description>Just reading Tim&#039;s second-to-last &quot;top-post&quot; reply made me realize what bothers me most about that style:

It often causes a switch of attention focus to the bottom of a message to gain context about what I&#039;m reading at the top.

When necessary, I want to quickly &quot;grok&quot; any older contextual content &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; reading newer content.  So, as a top-to-bottom reader, putting the old &lt;i&gt;after&lt;/i&gt; the new with top-posting has an unnaturally backwards flow for me.

I have a similar frustration using mail clients that try forcing me to read newest messages first, as though I&#039;d rather see something written without having any context about it from older related messages.

There are situations when newest-first is desirable but I don&#039;t think that should be the &lt;i&gt;default&lt;/i&gt; method of e-mail correspondence, which top-posting and newest-first clients seem to encourage.

Always a fun topic, is this. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just reading Tim&#8217;s second-to-last &#8220;top-post&#8221; reply made me realize what bothers me most about that style:</p>
<p>It often causes a switch of attention focus to the bottom of a message to gain context about what I&#8217;m reading at the top.</p>
<p>When necessary, I want to quickly &#8220;grok&#8221; any older contextual content <i>before</i> reading newer content.  So, as a top-to-bottom reader, putting the old <i>after</i> the new with top-posting has an unnaturally backwards flow for me.</p>
<p>I have a similar frustration using mail clients that try forcing me to read newest messages first, as though I&#8217;d rather see something written without having any context about it from older related messages.</p>
<p>There are situations when newest-first is desirable but I don&#8217;t think that should be the <i>default</i> method of e-mail correspondence, which top-posting and newest-first clients seem to encourage.</p>
<p>Always a fun topic, is this. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-639</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-639</guid>
		<description>Ah, yes. Buttons are for bottom-posters. 

Live previews are for those who want their information quickly and with no additional mouse clicks or scrolling. :-P

(Actually, &lt;a href=&quot;http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/LiveCommentPreview&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Live Comment Preview&lt;/a&gt; was just the first Wordpress plug-in that I stumbled across on the Net.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, yes. Buttons are for bottom-posters. </p>
<p>Live previews are for those who want their information quickly and with no additional mouse clicks or scrolling. :-P</p>
<p>(Actually, <a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/LiveCommentPreview" rel="nofollow">Live Comment Preview</a> was just the first WordPress plug-in that I stumbled across on the Net.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Ridley</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-635</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ridley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-635</guid>
		<description>Ooh, that was quick. Thanks. And real-time preview like all the cool kids have, not just a button.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, that was quick. Thanks. And real-time preview like all the cool kids have, not just a button.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-630</guid>
		<description>Your wish is my command! :-)

I never thought of it before. When I started this blog, no one commented much.
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Sorry about the bolded last line there. You ever gonna add a Preview button to this comment box?&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your wish is my command! :-)</p>
<p>I never thought of it before. When I started this blog, no one commented much.</p>
<blockquote><p>Sorry about the bolded last line there. You ever gonna add a Preview button to this comment box?</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Dan Ridley</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ridley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-629</guid>
		<description>Sorry &#039;bout the bolded last line there. You ever gonna add a Preview button to this comment box?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry &#8217;bout the bolded last line there. You ever gonna add a Preview button to this comment box?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Ridley</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ridley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-628</guid>
		<description>But... don&#039;t you think this is of &lt;b&gt;vital&lt;/b&gt; importance to, um, our health amd happiness, and, um, national security, um... Yeah, okay.

I think as long as you are able and willing to trim &amp; quote &lt;i&gt;when it&#039;s neccesary&lt;/i&gt; to convey context, I don&#039;t have any argument with you.

For the trivial cases, I don&#039;t notice or care about the quoting style on messages I receive. If you know how to handle yourself when it matters, that&#039;s plenty good enough.

I&#039;d still feel a little dirty if I actually did it, though :-P

[ Bonus content: my favorite reply to any message this week:
&lt;blockquote&gt; Yum. Er. Um. Brr. Hmm??? &lt;/blockquote&gt; That was sent to me as a top-post, no less. :-)  ]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But&#8230; don&#8217;t you think this is of <b>vital</b> importance to, um, our health amd happiness, and, um, national security, um&#8230; Yeah, okay.</p>
<p>I think as long as you are able and willing to trim &amp; quote <i>when it&#8217;s neccesary</i> to convey context, I don&#8217;t have any argument with you.</p>
<p>For the trivial cases, I don&#8217;t notice or care about the quoting style on messages I receive. If you know how to handle yourself when it matters, that&#8217;s plenty good enough.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d still feel a little dirty if I actually did it, though :-P</p>
<p>[ Bonus content: my favorite reply to any message this week:</p>
<blockquote><p> Yum. Er. Um. Brr. Hmm??? </p></blockquote>
<p> That was sent to me as a top-post, no less. :-)  ]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/13/an-ode-to-bottom-posting/comment-page-1/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 04:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=457#comment-627</guid>
		<description>&quot;Contextual posting&quot; - I like it. A good phrase.

I think that the biggest argument in favour of top-posting (apart from my beautiful if tendentious metaphor of the fridge) is the efficiency with which it imparts the information you need. 95% of the time, I remember what I was replying to. So I don&#039;t need to scroll at all. 

Of course, you and Joe have an excellent point about multi-issues replies to which there is no top-posting answer, but I don&#039;t think more than 20% of my emails fall into that category. For the most part, they are answers to single issues. 

I&#039;m not to worried about the untrimmed rubbish underneath a top-posted reply. At least my replies are in plain text and pretty small, even when I (gasp!) forget to trim myself.

I feel a &quot;tease-free consensus&quot; coming on that the happiest person is the one able to do both as and if needed, with some energy left over to worry some of the important things in their lives. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Contextual posting&#8221; &#8211; I like it. A good phrase.</p>
<p>I think that the biggest argument in favour of top-posting (apart from my beautiful if tendentious metaphor of the fridge) is the efficiency with which it imparts the information you need. 95% of the time, I remember what I was replying to. So I don&#8217;t need to scroll at all. </p>
<p>Of course, you and Joe have an excellent point about multi-issues replies to which there is no top-posting answer, but I don&#8217;t think more than 20% of my emails fall into that category. For the most part, they are answers to single issues. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not to worried about the untrimmed rubbish underneath a top-posted reply. At least my replies are in plain text and pretty small, even when I (gasp!) forget to trim myself.</p>
<p>I feel a &#8220;tease-free consensus&#8221; coming on that the happiest person is the one able to do both as and if needed, with some energy left over to worry some of the important things in their lives. What do you think?</p>
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