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	<title>Comments on: Gmail Conversations in Apple Mail</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/</link>
	<description>Tips and add-ons to make Apple Mail / Mail.app even better</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:23:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-333200</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-333200</guid>
		<description>While I use Apple Mail&#039;s Organize by Thread functionality, I think it&#039;s a stretch to say it&#039;s the same as Gmail&#039;s conversion view for a couple of reasons.

What I love about Google&#039;s conversation view is that your inbox doesn&#039;t fill up with all of the individual messages, but rather just shows the latest in the thread.  Search still searches all of the messages, of course, and you can get to them.  But I&#039;ve found no need to see all of the individual messages (the way Apple&#039;s Mail does when you expand the thread) separately.

The main thing that I love about Gmail&#039;s conversation view which Apple&#039;s Mail doesn&#039;t provide is threaded previewing.  While Mail will group the threaded messages in the list together, if you select the whole group it just shows you the from, subject, date, etc fields and you have to click them to open the individual email.  This isn&#039;t threaded messaging, it&#039;s just grouping a list.  If you&#039;re text messaging app on your phone grouped your texts but didn&#039;t show them inline you wouldn&#039;t call that threaded messaging.

What would help this view a lot would be if, instead of just filling the preview window with a list of messages when you select the whole thread, Mail would show you the messages, one after another so that you can skim the whole conversation without opening each individual message.

Like I said, I use Mail&#039;s Organize by Thread feature and think it&#039;s ok, but it&#039;s still a far cry from Google&#039;s conversation view.  Until I find a plugin or upgrade that will allow me to do that (Lion?) then I will still argue that Gmail&#039;s conversations are far, far superior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I use Apple Mail&#8217;s Organize by Thread functionality, I think it&#8217;s a stretch to say it&#8217;s the same as Gmail&#8217;s conversion view for a couple of reasons.</p>
<p>What I love about Google&#8217;s conversation view is that your inbox doesn&#8217;t fill up with all of the individual messages, but rather just shows the latest in the thread.  Search still searches all of the messages, of course, and you can get to them.  But I&#8217;ve found no need to see all of the individual messages (the way Apple&#8217;s Mail does when you expand the thread) separately.</p>
<p>The main thing that I love about Gmail&#8217;s conversation view which Apple&#8217;s Mail doesn&#8217;t provide is threaded previewing.  While Mail will group the threaded messages in the list together, if you select the whole group it just shows you the from, subject, date, etc fields and you have to click them to open the individual email.  This isn&#8217;t threaded messaging, it&#8217;s just grouping a list.  If you&#8217;re text messaging app on your phone grouped your texts but didn&#8217;t show them inline you wouldn&#8217;t call that threaded messaging.</p>
<p>What would help this view a lot would be if, instead of just filling the preview window with a list of messages when you select the whole thread, Mail would show you the messages, one after another so that you can skim the whole conversation without opening each individual message.</p>
<p>Like I said, I use Mail&#8217;s Organize by Thread feature and think it&#8217;s ok, but it&#8217;s still a far cry from Google&#8217;s conversation view.  Until I find a plugin or upgrade that will allow me to do that (Lion?) then I will still argue that Gmail&#8217;s conversations are far, far superior.</p>
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		<title>By: Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Quickly email a link from Safari</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-25914</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Quickly email a link from Safari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-25914</guid>
		<description>[...] I hesitated about posted this, but sometimes the tips that you think everyone knows are the ones least well-known, like using âŒ˜] and âŒ˜[ to cycle through the available HTML, Rich Text and plain text views of an email, or using Gmail-like &#8220;Conversation&#8221; views in Apple Mail. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I hesitated about posted this, but sometimes the tips that you think everyone knows are the ones least well-known, like using âŒ˜] and âŒ˜[ to cycle through the available HTML, Rich Text and plain text views of an email, or using Gmail-like &#8220;Conversation&#8221; views in Apple Mail. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Pavlic</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-1130</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Pavlic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-1130</guid>
		<description>NOTE: I know that you can just create saved searches of that GTD folder for each of those groupings. However, I like being able to click on ONE thing (&quot;Actions&quot;, &quot;Projects&quot;, &quot;GTD&quot;) to get a summary rather than going through a slew of saved searches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NOTE: I know that you can just create saved searches of that GTD folder for each of those groupings. However, I like being able to click on ONE thing (&#8220;Actions&#8221;, &#8220;Projects&#8221;, &#8220;GTD&#8221;) to get a summary rather than going through a slew of saved searches.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Pavlic</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Pavlic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-1129</guid>
		<description>Thunderbird fans will at first claim that this is possible in Thunderbird too, however when they try to implement it they&#039;ll find that Thunderbird only supports threading in saved searches if the saved search only searches a single mailbox. :( This is a really sucky limitation. (bugzilla?) It means that if you have a separate Sent folder there is no way to cleanly union your sent messages with your received messages without physically moving Lthem to the same folder (yes, a BCC trick will suffice, though that&#039;s hokey). Boo!

So props to Apple Mail for very general thread support. My mouth waters when I think about it.

However, does Apple Mail support &quot;Grouped by Sort&quot; like Thunderbird does? (I&#039;m on my office PC now, so I can&#039;t check myself)

In Thunderbird, you can sort by something (example: label or recipient) and then hit &quot;g&quot; to &quot;Group by Sort.&quot; The result is a tree view of all of the set of all things in the sort category. Each group thing can then be expanded to show all of the messages grouped underneath it (and it appears to sort each of those messages by date; I would rather it sort by the previous thing I was sorting by). 

(NOTE: This too only works in saved searches if you are only searching through a single inbox. ALSO NOTE: Grouping by Sort does not work with &quot;View:&quot; as you would expect. If you want to group a view by sort, you&#039;ll need to create a saved search)

Here are two example screen shots. In the first, I&#039;ve grouped by label (these are GTD-style labels). In the second, I&#039;ve grouped by date. Notice a problem with grouping by date is that automailers that didn&#039;t take the time and effort to date their mail end up getting shifted into the &quot;Old Mail&quot; pile. :(

http://links.tedpavlic.com/images/hawkwings_tbird_gsort1.png

http://links.tedpavlic.com/images/hawkwings_tbird_gsort2.png

Something that I think is nice about this is that you can implement something that LOOKS and FEELS a little like kGTD right within Thunderbird. Store all your actions in one box (Inbox, perhaps, or a GTD folder) and then create saved searches that actually do NO filtering. In each copy of the box, sort by something different. Sort by label in the GTD folder. Sort by recipient in the &quot;Actions&quot; saved search. Sort by subject in the &quot;Projects&quot; saved search. Now in all three folders, group by label. 

Now implement TkGTD by setting up e-mail forwarding (if you have your own domain, wildcard forwarding will work great) from addresses representing each of your contexts to your main address. (add those address to your address book with a context nickname to make the display prettier) When you want to send yourself a new action to add to your GTD database, e-mail the appropriate context (&quot;errands&quot;, &quot;desk&quot;, &quot;work&quot;, &quot;office&quot;, etc.) and start the subject with a project identifier (perhaps prioritized with symbols at the front). When the e-mail arrives, label it appropriately (TBird has 5 labels: Action/Defer/Waiting/Respond/Read). Use the &quot;flag&quot; to mark next actions.

Now clicking on your &quot;Actions&quot; folder lists all of your actions grouped by context. Clicking on your &quot;Projects&quot; folder lists all of your actions grouped by project. Clicking on your &quot;GTD&quot; folder lists all of your actions grouped by action type (action/defer/waiting/etc.). 

All that&#039;s missing is recur/reset... Otherwise it&#039;s kGTD. (without the fun iCal syncing)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thunderbird fans will at first claim that this is possible in Thunderbird too, however when they try to implement it they&#8217;ll find that Thunderbird only supports threading in saved searches if the saved search only searches a single mailbox. :( This is a really sucky limitation. (bugzilla?) It means that if you have a separate Sent folder there is no way to cleanly union your sent messages with your received messages without physically moving Lthem to the same folder (yes, a BCC trick will suffice, though that&#8217;s hokey). Boo!</p>
<p>So props to Apple Mail for very general thread support. My mouth waters when I think about it.</p>
<p>However, does Apple Mail support &#8220;Grouped by Sort&#8221; like Thunderbird does? (I&#8217;m on my office PC now, so I can&#8217;t check myself)</p>
<p>In Thunderbird, you can sort by something (example: label or recipient) and then hit &#8220;g&#8221; to &#8220;Group by Sort.&#8221; The result is a tree view of all of the set of all things in the sort category. Each group thing can then be expanded to show all of the messages grouped underneath it (and it appears to sort each of those messages by date; I would rather it sort by the previous thing I was sorting by). </p>
<p>(NOTE: This too only works in saved searches if you are only searching through a single inbox. ALSO NOTE: Grouping by Sort does not work with &#8220;View:&#8221; as you would expect. If you want to group a view by sort, you&#8217;ll need to create a saved search)</p>
<p>Here are two example screen shots. In the first, I&#8217;ve grouped by label (these are GTD-style labels). In the second, I&#8217;ve grouped by date. Notice a problem with grouping by date is that automailers that didn&#8217;t take the time and effort to date their mail end up getting shifted into the &#8220;Old Mail&#8221; pile. :(</p>
<p><a href="http://links.tedpavlic.com/images/hawkwings_tbird_gsort1.png" rel="nofollow">http://links.tedpavlic.com/images/hawkwings_tbird_gsort1.png</a></p>
<p><a href="http://links.tedpavlic.com/images/hawkwings_tbird_gsort2.png" rel="nofollow">http://links.tedpavlic.com/images/hawkwings_tbird_gsort2.png</a></p>
<p>Something that I think is nice about this is that you can implement something that LOOKS and FEELS a little like kGTD right within Thunderbird. Store all your actions in one box (Inbox, perhaps, or a GTD folder) and then create saved searches that actually do NO filtering. In each copy of the box, sort by something different. Sort by label in the GTD folder. Sort by recipient in the &#8220;Actions&#8221; saved search. Sort by subject in the &#8220;Projects&#8221; saved search. Now in all three folders, group by label. </p>
<p>Now implement TkGTD by setting up e-mail forwarding (if you have your own domain, wildcard forwarding will work great) from addresses representing each of your contexts to your main address. (add those address to your address book with a context nickname to make the display prettier) When you want to send yourself a new action to add to your GTD database, e-mail the appropriate context (&#8220;errands&#8221;, &#8220;desk&#8221;, &#8220;work&#8221;, &#8220;office&#8221;, etc.) and start the subject with a project identifier (perhaps prioritized with symbols at the front). When the e-mail arrives, label it appropriately (TBird has 5 labels: Action/Defer/Waiting/Respond/Read). Use the &#8220;flag&#8221; to mark next actions.</p>
<p>Now clicking on your &#8220;Actions&#8221; folder lists all of your actions grouped by context. Clicking on your &#8220;Projects&#8221; folder lists all of your actions grouped by project. Clicking on your &#8220;GTD&#8221; folder lists all of your actions grouped by action type (action/defer/waiting/etc.). </p>
<p>All that&#8217;s missing is recur/reset&#8230; Otherwise it&#8217;s kGTD. (without the fun iCal syncing)</p>
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		<title>By: Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Threaded conversations: Getting what Gmail&#8217;s got</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-1124</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Threaded conversations: Getting what Gmail&#8217;s got</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-1124</guid>
		<description>[...] Luckily, Mail.app does a very good job of producing threaded Gmail-like conversations. (Even better with MailTags). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Luckily, Mail.app does a very good job of producing threaded Gmail-like conversations. (Even better with MailTags). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Good idea -- so I incorporated in to MailTags -- Version 1.1 will have a button on the search slice that will search both to and from fields and list items.  Just type in the name of the person on the other side of the conversation into the find field, select the &quot;conversation&quot; button and you have a listing of back and forth messages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good idea &#8212; so I incorporated in to MailTags &#8212; Version 1.1 will have a button on the search slice that will search both to and from fields and list items.  Just type in the name of the person on the other side of the conversation into the find field, select the &#8220;conversation&#8221; button and you have a listing of back and forth messages.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/09/15/gmail-conversations-in-apple-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hawkwings.net/?p=103#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Mail.app threading is OK, but it doesn&#039;t seem to play so well with searching the way this does with GMail: if you search for a message then the results are not organised by thread (and the option on the view menu will not be active).  This does rather undermine the utility of threading if you like the GMail-style search oriented mail archiving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mail.app threading is OK, but it doesn&#8217;t seem to play so well with searching the way this does with GMail: if you search for a message then the results are not organised by thread (and the option on the view menu will not be active).  This does rather undermine the utility of threading if you like the GMail-style search oriented mail archiving.</p>
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